Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam.
The hardest question in America right now isn't what to think, it's how to know.
My guest today, investigative journalist Mel K. Has spent years working that problem from the primary sources up.
And this conversation is for people who stop trusting the referees but still want the truth.
I, I call this the airless age for a reason.
Air is the thing you never think about until it's gone. And in public life, the air is a set of shared facts.
It's a basic agreement about what happened, who said it, and what's actually true.
And that's what's thinned out.
Americans aren't mostly arguing about solutions anymore. They're arguing about reality itself.
And most people I'd argue, aren't partisans. They're not carrying water for a party or a. A politician. They're just trying to figure out who's telling them the truth. And they've been burned enough times by institutions that were supposed to know better that they stopped taking anyone's word for anything.
That's not cynicism.
That's a rational response to a broken information environment.
But it's a hard place to live.
Distrust without direction is its own kind of suffocation.
My guest today has built her entire body of work in that gap. Mel K. Is an independent filmmaker and investigative journalist and a host of the Mel K Show.
And she spent years doing the unglamorous part of this, going back to primary sources, tracing money, institutional history, and asking questions that so rarely get asked out loud. Who benefits from this arrangement and how long has it been in place?
You don't have to agree with every conclusion she reaches to find the method valuable.
What I want to get at today isn't a list of answers. It's how a serious person actually reasons in an environment this polluted.
What she looks at first, what makes her change her mind and can someone without a research to. How can someone without a research staff can do the same thing at their kitchen table?
Okay. Welcome to the show.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. Very, very interesting time we are living through and I agree with you a lot of this.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Well, your book, your book is. Your book is Ty still mean interrupt you but I want to I. The book has got a very interesting title and I think that'd be a good place to start. It's called, you've called it Infiltration instead of Invasion, America Betrayed and you name the dates, 1944 to 1954.
So can we break this down?
[00:03:14] Speaker B: Sure.
So essentially, when Covid kicked in and I had, I had worked on a couple projects About Hannah Arendt, who wrote Eichmann in Jerusalem and a bunch of other books. She is one person who taught me the most about totalitarianism. Her great book, Origins of Totalitarianism is something that really shaped my perspective on just what is going on on a global. Globally. And during COVID I really looked back into it and I thought, something is terribly wrong here. And that led me to JFK's 1961 speech to the press.
And it was. He told the United States that there was a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that was infiltration instead of invasion, subversion instead of elections, intimidation instead of free choice, and guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. And that was in 1961, written by him and his brother. And I wanted to know exactly what he was talking about. I wasn't okay with just saying he's talking about communism because he was talking about America and inside America and that we had a clear and present danger, as everyone knows. Two years later, he was shot in front of the American people, I believe by design to kind of collapse the country and make us very suggestible to whatever was coming next. So I worked backwards.
What was going on when he wrote that 1961 that him and his brother were seeing and that they were warning us about. And that led me to Switzerland during World War II. And, you know, we were all told Switzerland was neutral. Well, Switzerland was not neutral.
In fact, I have come to believe that Switzerland was where a supranational architecture was built primarily with the help of. And the expertise of two Wall street lawyers named the Dulles Brothers from Sullivan and Cromwell end up in Switzerland between those years of 44 and 54. And much of what they did at the bank of International Settlements and in the OSS in Switzerland and with the multinational corporations that Sullivan and Cromwell were representing through John Foster Dulles is create a supra national architecture of continuity that we are still living under.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Well, I'm feeling that. I'm feeling the heat. And when I was running my public company, New York Stock Exchange traded Company, Solomon Cromwell was one of my. One of my law firms.
When I read your book, I thought, oh, my gosh. So. But this story starts, you open the book, and I think it's in Bern in 1944.
And while people. While countries were trying to blow each other up and murdering millions of people, instead of reflecting that reality, what was happening in the conference rooms in Bern was they were organizing a financial system that was, in effect, going to take care of all the players, whether or not they won the war. Lost. Is that, is that about right?
[00:06:20] Speaker B: Thousand percent true. And what, again, we have to remember because a lot of people don't fully understand the level to which the Rockefellers shaped the United States that we live in now. But John Foster Dulles was on the board of the Rockefeller foundation while also representing them in their dealings with German companies, including IG Farben, and sharing patents with them and, you know, figuring out the future of multinational beyond border corporations and structures, as well as, you know, the birth and the growth of the NGO international NGO complex. John Foster Dulles also went on to write the UN Treaty.
And one of the writers of that, while his brother was the formerly Sullivan and Cromwell, but now is running the oss. So we had two Wall street lawyers in there representing the United States.
And essentially the head of the bank of International Settlements during the time that you are talking about was A man named McKittrick, another American from Wall Street. So what, what I found was these Red House papers. And I want everyone to know I put my bibliography and these documents online on my website resource page because I want people to look at them. They are real documents.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Where do we find that?
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Right on the Melkshow.com resource page. the top is my bibliography.
So what we need to know is the Red House papers document a meeting in France of the international bankers, many of them that met all through the war in Switzerland with the Reich bankers at the same tables, meeting to figure out how to get as much money out of Nazi Germany before Hitler surrendered. And the pathway to doing that was essentially the Vatican bank, the City of London, through Argentina and into America through subsidiaries of these German companies, through shell companies and through banking institutions and NGOs. So a lot of money was removed. Also, most people don't know that the Bretton woods conference happened only a week after D Day, well before the surrender.
So it's very clear that they were building a supranational financial architecture for the future above nations while people were still fighting and dying on the, on the, you know, continent of Europe actively, and that they were looking for some continuity after. And what I found was that the real moves towards a global governance model happened in those years. And then, as good lawyers would do, they gave themselves immunity.
So this is where the American people really need to take a step back and think about why no president has rescinded this immunity.
Because what happened at Bretton woods and after, first of all, Bretton woods, they voted to end the bank of International Settlements, but it is still the most powerful bank in the world, right? Now.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Well, but they didn't, they put that to a vote in the Senate and lost by one vote the idea that they would end it. So it kept going and it's, it's still one of the dominant institutions in the world today.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:09:36] Speaker A: but you know, the thing, and I'm one of the things I wanted to get into a bit though is this.
At first they were trying to protect each other countries assets. The loser didn't want to give up everything. It wasn't clear who was going to win, although it's pretty obvious that Germany was not going to come out on top. But nevertheless they wanted Germany, they wanted the financial structure in place so that after the country had been destroyed physically, they at least had the institution in place to start rebuilding it. And I think they were already, you know, there was some idealism here which I think has now become something much more sinister that you know, we have these nation states, they fought with each other, they're, they're trying to blow each other up and put them out of existence. And we needed to go beyond the nation state. We need, we needed, I don't know to use the word back then, but global, a global governance structure that would operate beyond the borders of any given country.
And the financial system has really been engineered so that it acts almost like in a boundaryless way where you can move money from this country to that country. And what we think of as, you know, relatively recent is not that recent, is not recent. It's, you know, at least Basel and the bank of International Settlements got started in 1944.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Right.
And
[00:10:59] Speaker A: you had, and set the stage though, because you had the American lawyers in the room and you had Germans in the room and you had French in the room and you had Italians and you had UK and everybody who was, you know, officially at war with each other, they were calmly sitting there, you know, over tea, discussing how to, how to, how to move money.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: Yes. And again, the, the International Organization immunity Act of 1945, I believe, also written by John Foster Dulles and a bunch of other people, gave them all immunity and then
[00:11:33] Speaker A: explain that was that put through Congress? I mean, did Congress vote on
[00:11:37] Speaker B: that? It's actually through. It was a presidential directive. So. Well,
[00:11:41] Speaker A: that's the point I wanted to make. This was not a democratically, this did not go through the democrat process. This was all the administrative state as we, as we think of it now.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: Yes, yes, it is essentially dictatorship through bureaucracy. It is, it is, there is nobody to blame. There is, you know, it's, and this is why it's very odd to me. So I, I want to explain what that is. The International Organization immunity Act of 1945 gave the bank of International Settlements, the IMF, the World bank and 63 other banks total and complete immunity from any kind of audit, investigation, legal action, not just where they are, but on US Soil. So we have the IMF and the World bank and a bunch of other international institutions, soil of which the United States has zero jurisdiction over.
And then when they, after the UN treaty, they extended the International Organization Immunity act of 45 to protect the United nations, the World Health Organization, UNESCO, and 75 tentacles of the United nations. And all of those immunities are still in place today.
And the President could rescind the, the International Organization Immunity act and finally open the books on where I, I would say if, if Scott Besson is saying we're having $600 billion a year of taxpayer fraud in the United States, I would say trillions of dollars have been invested, particularly in the World bank, which is where all the UN money goes. And the American people have no ability to audit it, to look at it, to charge anyone. And then if you look at the imf, what they've been doing all these years, giving out loans to countries in distress that they know they can't pay. And then when those loans aren't paid, next thing you know, they're taking over the banking institutions, they're taking over the natural resources. This has been a endless war for profit model, not a financial continuity model as it was proposed and it was highly exposed. I'm in my second book of 64 to 74. There were a lot of hearings about this Church committee, Pike Committee, all kinds of hearings, but nothing's changed since that time. And all of these institutions, whether it's on our soil or elsewhere, are immune to investigation in 2026.
So why can't presidents get anything done? Maybe it's because our national sovereignty has been compromised and that there is trillions of dollars invested in the end goal, I believe, of a World War iii. You said before something important about Germany and rebuilding Germany. But I will tell you at that Red House meeting and other things I found about it, the whole goal was to let Germany fall, but make sure that the Nazis could rebuild.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: Red House meeting took place where? Strasbourg
[00:14:35] Speaker B: or in, in France? Strasbourg,
[00:14:37] Speaker A: in France.
And who was in that meeting?
[00:14:41] Speaker B: Well, you can't find everyone, but they say internationalists, which is multinational corporations, bankers. Himmler apparently was there at the bank of England.
Representatives from Wall street and, you know, essentially the inner Circle of the same people that met regularly in Basel during the war. And the whole goal was to figure out how to make sure that even if Germany fell, that the Nazis would get the money out and could rebuild later. Remember, the Nazis were the National Socialist Workers Party. People forget that as they see us fighting, you know, now. And I cover in my book obviously Operation Paperclip. But much more than that happened with the infiltration.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Well, you're bringing us forward to today, but I'm still, I'm still. The history is very interesting. Operation Paperclip occurred after the war was over and we were, it was clear we were going to be in a, in a power struggle with the Soviet Union. And that power struggle was going to involve technology, the atomic bomb, missile, missile defense or, or offense, as the case may be.
And so the, I, the, the issue at hand was Germany had all these scientists who knew how all this worked and who was going to get them. Was it going to be Russia, was going to be Soviet Union or was going to be us? And there were enormous ethical problems with it because most of people were involved in incredible atrocities.
And our intelligence services, and I think the British were involved as well, whitewashed their backgrounds so they could come into the United States and act like, you know, well, they knew, they knew a Nazi when they were in Germany, but they certainly weren't involved with, with Hitler or anything having to do with Hitler. So, so they were okay to bring in. So we, our moral corruption if it, if you want, if you want. I think started right then when we decided we, we didn't care who they were really. We wanted their. What they could do for us militarily and strategically.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that Operation Paperclip is the tip of the iceberg.
What I also believe is that we imported a whole bunch of behavioral scientists, a whole bunch of people working on MKUltra, which is mind control that the Nazis perfected. A whole bunch of people working on social behavior, social science. We didn't have that here. So I don't know if you know that, Grassley, when Malay won, because a lot of this came through Argentina because Peron was on the side of the Nazis and most people know Eichmann was found in Argentina. But what it's looking like now is that there were tens of thousands of Nazis that came in and not alone. They came in with their families and their children had their backgrounds whitewashed. And beyond Paperclip, which was Manhattan Project, which was the Jet Propulsion Lab, NASA was also the entire social, social scientist sciences, behavioral scientists. So A lot of these people also were imported into not just our universities and our think tanks and NGOs, but also into our entire industry that became psychology and psychiatry and all of this. A lot of that was imported as well. Names changed, backgrounds whitewashed. Most people know the IG Farben leaders all got sentenced in Nuremberg. But a man most people don't know, that is very consequential. His name was John McCloy. He was running the reconstruction for the United States of Germany.
He went in and got most of them out, and most of them went back into their positions in the, you know, newly distributed IG Farben, which ended up being Bayer and AJ basf. And so a lot of this is much more sinister than people think. And like I said, when Malay won, Grassley wrote him a letter, Chuck Grassley, asking him to really find and release the hundreds of thousands of documents that were hidden about the Nazi rat lines going through Argentina into America. Because what was happening, it turns out, is that they were building shell companies in America, but also subsidiaries of German companies in America and funneling a lot of the money and the people through that.
And apparently Grassley's report with Malay is being completed right now in Switzerland by UBS is participating because they bought Credit Suisse. And the document, if you look on Grassley's website, it says when this report is released in late 2026, the entire understanding of World War II and the aftermath will be completely turned upside down. And I have a feeling it's going to be that many more Nazis were brought into America and then we can't forget that. Alan Dulles.
[00:19:41] Speaker A: Well, which, which makes our moral crime all the greater, but the, but the pro. But that was then. It was bad.
But there's a lot of other stuff that happened. You were caught in your book that, that brings us to the architecture of, of the, of the power structures that exist today.
And one of the, you know, one of the things they got busy doing was create, creating international institutions like the UN or the, or the World bank or the IMF or the, or the World Health Organization that were supposed to be beyond reproach because they didn't represent any one country. They were, of course, above the fray, but in fact, they were not above the fray. And I think America went into that with that structure. And because at the time, at the end, World War II ended, the United States was like half the world's GDP.
You know, Germany had been crushed, Japan was crushed. You know, everything that UK was bankruptcy, on and on. So we felt pretty like we had a free hand to create these because we felt we would always be in control.
Now the thing that's happened since then, of course, is US GDP is like, like, like 1819 of, of the total.
And China, which was probably close to zero back then, is now neck and neck with this. And China is the, is the country that now is begun to dominate the un, the, the World Health Organization. And it goes on and on and on. So instead of this being our strategic plaything, it's becoming China's, which makes it, you know, doubly, doubly ironic that we're, we're fighting against the very power structure that we created.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Yes, that is so true. And I will tell you when I believe that this happened.
In 1953, John Foster Dulles walked into the unelected position of the Secretary of State and his brother walked in at the same time to the unelected position of the head of the CIA.
And from that point on, I believe that they brought what they were doing in Switzerland and with the international organizations and immunity and the Rockefeller foundation where John Foster Dulles was on the board, into the State Department. And I believe that The State Department, CIA, later USAID and National Endowment for Democracy from 1953 Forward has not worked for the United States of America. I believe that they are the tentacle in the United States of America for the international global governance model now known as Agenda 2030.
And we also have to understand that There are multiple NGOs in the United States that are aligned with that global model, including the center for American Progress, Brookings and Atlantic.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Is it, Is that Center for Progress? Is that Podesta?
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. And John Podesta was one of the writers from Bonke Moon. Remember back
[00:22:42] Speaker A: in
[00:22:42] Speaker B: the 90s when they kicked off climate change, which is Global Governance 101. But John Podesta was one of the writers and the hub of pushing us towards the real thing that I believe has been the goal since 53 is collapsing the constitutional republic and republican form of governance in America for straight democracy.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: Well, I wanted to, but that's where the history gets interesting because nobody asked the American public about whether it was a good idea for us to do this. And they created, was the National Security act of, of 1947. They, they created a permanent intelligence agency in peacetime for the first time in American history.
And it was not voted on. I think it was, was an executive order. It just, it just came into existence. And for, for 25 years they wouldn't admit that it did exist. I think the acronym was no such agency.
And so it was, it was, it was hidden from us. And so it, this, this, this surveillance state, this, this deep state, whatever we want to call it, came into existence of its own doing, unbidden by, by the voters. And we find ourselves now with them with the whip hand. And it's hard to see you as a Democratic.
It's hard to see the democratic processes unwinding them. They become so powerful.
[00:24:07] Speaker B: Yeah, but one person can do that. And if I was him, I would. It won't be popular, but what we have to know about that 1947 National Security act was, it was a one page memo that was purposely very vague.
It established the CIA, NSA and two, three other intelligence divisions. And shortly after it gave them all complete and total opaque budgets, opaque operations, even from the President.
And you know, in three years, three presidents warned us about the same thing. First JFK in the infiltration speech, then Eisenhower on his way out of office because the Dulles came in under him and he realized it, that we. There was a problem. He warned us about the international banks and the military industrial complex and then Truman who signed the 1947 order and it was highly controversial and ignored in the Washington Post before he died, he did an op ed where he said if he ever knew what the CIA would have become and how they would have taken over and usurped foreign policy and other things, and he called them sinister, he never would have signed that. That was. Within three years, three presidents warned the American people that the CIA and the intelligence community was out of control and running a separate operation.
And then you bring in later the fraud that is the usaid, which is not aid, it is international development. It came out of the same period, the draper report. Under McCloy, USAID is soft power in foreign countries.
And the overthrows that started when Bill Clinton expanded NATO after George Soros wrote the NATO World Order documents and then Clinton went for it. What happened was when Clinton bombed Yugoslavia, they hit the Chinese embassy, apparently by accident, they say. And the answer to that was to invite China into the World Trade Organization.
None of which was by accident, if you ask me.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Which was probably the biggest blunder?
I don't know. It's, it's not the biggest. It's certainly in the top two or three biggest blunders we've ever made.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: Yes, and, and the question is, was it a blunder?
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Well, the other thing we did was we gave them a permanent. You know, they used to be year to year about, about whether we could trade with them. And then we Made that permanent. And as soon as we made it permanent, every corporation started putting up manufacturing plants.
China. And that's what hollowed out the US manufacturing base.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And many people now are looking back at the Mono Monica Lewinsky scandal and thinking, you know, maybe that was a distraction because during that time is when that was happening, when all of it was being exported to China. But we can't, we can't just look at China alone. Because the same people that were in America that were running our country through NGOs and organizations and banks were also doing the same thing in Nazi Germany, particularly the Rockefeller family and the Ford foundation and Carnegie, but they were also doing that in China since the early 1900s as well. And they did not stop during Hitler and they did not stop during Mao. They continued to do the, what they call civil society. Same thing with Ukraine. Ukraine, you know, essentially Alan Dulles made sure that the ss, which was based in Ukraine, that no Ukrainian Nazis were held accountable.
So you got to kind of look at all of it when we say, was it an accident that, you know, the Clinton administration accidentally bombed the Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia. Next thing you know, they're in the World Trade Organization. And at the same time, Kissinger and, and Rockefeller and all these people are writing about how great China is. Then as we go forward, you hear Klaus Schwab, Bill Gates, Larry Fink, all these people, how great the technocracy or the way China runs their, you know, their control and surveillance. And then it becomes Agenda 2030 is the China technocracy model. And then it's being pushed. And really this is a long game. And it's like I said, I always say, I don't think that we're dealing with a nation state situation. I think this is more like what Orwell describes in 1984 when he describes the state he's mocking, actually the Nazis and Mao in 1984. And he says that the state that controls at that time has no allegiance or alliance to any flag, to any country, to any nationality, to any nation state. But really their power is for power itself amongst each other. And I think that's what we are dealing with on a global scale to this day.
[00:29:03] Speaker A: Talk about the Ford foundation, the Carnegie foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation.
The role that they played was to do a lot of things without having to go through any government agency.
Something would stand outside of not only democracy, but government itself.
Describe that role. It's, it's, it's interesting and, and, and, and everybody listening and watching this should know that the, what Ford and what Rockefeller and, and the other big foundations are doing right now is worse today than it was,
[00:29:39] Speaker B: oh, absolutely,
[00:29:40] Speaker A: 50, 50 years ago. It's just.
Anyway, I, I, I, I. This is your book. Tell me about the, Tell me about these foundations and how they, how they interrelated with each other and with the rest of the scheme.
